21 Responses for "Faith Healing - Religiously Induced Stupidity"

1. Panther July 7th, 2009 at 10:07 am 1

   A courageous judge has disallowed the Worthington’s motion to dismiss the charges against them in the death of their 15 month old daughter and they will (bob willing) go to trial. It’s odd that people are so willing to let parents do horrible things to their children in the name of religion but not for any other reason, oh say, drugs or alcohol. If parents are running a meth factory, the children are removed immediately, but if the parents are using faith healing, people are more likely to turn a blind eye. In my opinion, both are equally likely to harm the children.

2. PhillyChief July 8th, 2009 at 11:07 am 2

   And the reason why god chose to answer your prayers and not all the other parents who had similar experiences is…?

3. Brian July 8th, 2009 at 11:07 am 3

   Anonymous, I’ll offer you the same challenge that I’ve offered every other commentor who has come along with such an impossible miracle story. If what you say is true then it should be well documeted, perhaps even written about in a reputable medical journal. If you send me copies of the medical reports and any investigations or write-ups, I will write a post about your story and admit that I was totally wrong about the whole faith healing thing.

4. Shawn Francis Peters July 9th, 2009 at 1:07 am 4

   I’m not sure I can add a lot to the discussion at this point, but I’ve been following the case closely since I live in WI and have written a book (with Oxford University Press) on faith healing, children, and the law. If you’re interested, my “Religious Convictions” blog has more info:http://lawandfaith.blogspot.com/

5. Brian July 9th, 2009 at 9:07 am 5

   Speaking of hating Jesus, have you guys seen this yet?http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/wisejesus.jpg

6. Willie Hirst July 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pm 6

   I am the mother of a medically documented miracle. My son was born without lungs and given ZERO chance of survival.There was nothing the doctors could do. They took “death” pictures of him. They tried to convince us that it was IMPOSSIBLE for his lungs to grow after birth. They thought we were a bunch of Jesus Freaks (we are). He is now a HEALTHY seven year old.

7. PhillyChief July 10th, 2009 at 2:07 am 7

   Why hate Jesus? He’s partly or completely a fictional character. Blame the writers and the numbnuts who kill their children and do other shit based on all that stuff.

8. MR. X July 10th, 2009 at 5:07 am 8

   We can only be thankful that these people are out of the gene pool. The law should be under obligation to protect children, regardless of their parents beliefs.www.whyihatejesus.blogspot.com/

9. Brian July 10th, 2009 at 8:07 am 9

   The overuse of antibiotics and immunization in society are seperate medical issues that need to be solved through scientific study (rather than through bad analogies or the blind belief that these things are somehow bad). They are completely different than the issue of whether parents have the right to deny life-saving treatment to their children in the face of death. I think PhillyChief’s analogies are much better (drowning, burning, kidnapping, etc…). Anyone who sits with their hands folded and watches their children die needlessly should be charged with negligence at the very least. I think even most christians would agree with that.

10. R N B July 10th, 2009 at 10:07 am 10

    I think that science is almost defined by judicious skepticism. Sometimes people take that science and use it “wrongly”, for example to try to create a garden with only x varieties of plant, but I see nothing wrong with aiming for the goal of eradicating every case of plague or smallpox or malaria in a human community, however wide we define that community.

11. PhillyChief July 10th, 2009 at 12:07 pm 11

    As for the garden issue, wouldn’t it be better to find out WHY it may not be better to eradicate all unwanted elements rather than to just rely on faith that you shouldn’t? This is why in math tests they ask you to show your work. Guessing the right answer is not nearly as valuable as knowing how to arrive at the right answer.

12. Mercurious July 11th, 2009 at 2:07 am 12

    @ John EvoI’m surely not defending parents who would let a child die of diabetes. But allow me to play devil’s advocate just a bit.Extreme faith in anything is dangerous, whether it be faith in Johovah or faith in the idols of science. A couple of obvious points:• Use of antibiotics by the food industry appears to be in large part responsible for strains of E-coli that now frequently kill.• More people now die from malaria than 100 years ago. The culprit: a failed effort to eradicate the disease which caused super strains to evolve. • Routine use “profilactic” antibiotics by physicians now puts us at risk of being unable to treat many infections by standard medications. I’m not saying put your faith in God, not science. But I’m also saying that science, as the product of human limitations, should be viewed with judicious skepticism. A good number of respected scientists belief that efforts to completely eradicate diseases are misguided. A close examination of a healthy garden will show that there are many, many mild problems—a few aphids here, a bit of black spot fungus there. Nothing, however, is so extreme as to overwhelm the general health of the system.When you try to create an utterly pristine garden, though, a true horror can occur, because this often opens the door to a single enemy devastating the place. Botonists tell us this is because natural competition prevents catastrophic disease. I think a careful look of the history of science shows much the same thing in the human garden.

13. PhillyChief July 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am 13

    I think the line is reached far sooner Brian. People simply can’t be allowed to choose personal belief over reality for their children. It’s simply irresponsible and sadly as we found out, life threatening.• If your house was on fire, would you hold your family in the flames and pray for the fire to stop? Would you do the same in the face of a similar disaster like flood, tornado, or even radon gas?•If your child was drowning and you could rescue it, would you pray instead? If at the beach or a pool where there was a lifeguard, would you stop the lifeguard?• If your child was missing or you knew it was kidnapped, would you pray instead of calling the police?Any sane person would answer “no” to all of those, and I think it’s clear that anyone who actually did these things would face criminal charges and perhaps be sent to an institution of the padded wall variety, yet for far too long in this country the same situation, if it’s instead medical care, has gotten a pass. The fact that there’s ANY debate over this story is ridiculous. People must be compelled to get their children medical care. If they don’t, they’re criminally liable. In fact, if they are a part of a church that encourages such behavior, then the church should be criminally liable as well.

14. PeterAtLarge July 12th, 2009 at 1:07 am 14

    I’m glad to have found your site, Brian. This piece is spot-on when it comes to the fanatical attachment to religion as the cure for whatever ails you. (My own father was a “layer on of hands”–though of a more humanist and humane bent, I like to think.)

15. John Evo July 12th, 2009 at 4:07 am 15

    @ Mercurious for example, that there is biological benefit to fighting off the flu occasionally rather than avoiding every sniffle with a vaccinationWhoever told you this has their facts wrong. Influenza kills 10s of thousands of people every year. Most of them are either elderly, weak OR children! And guess what? It MUTATES (evolves) constantly. Now, sure, if you get a light case of THIS YEAR’S flu, you will self-inoculate - against further flu of the same strain. But next year you will be at risk again because “evolution is smarter than you are”. Now, knowing that children can potentially die from flu, don’t you think it makes sense to vaccinate them? Let’s say 1,000 kids die from flu in the U.S. every year. Can you IMAGINE the public commotion if 1,000 kids died from malnutrition?As I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t think parents should have the right to raise their kids however they choose. I don’t think everything should be legislated either. But there is a happy mid-point we can come to with child safety.

16. Brian July 13th, 2009 at 1:07 am 16

    The line should be when people allow their children to die needlessly because they refused available medical treatment (I’m not talking about radical experimental procedures in terminal cases, which cause suffering and only have a slight chance of improvement). This is no different than if someone refused to give their kids food and they starved to death.

17. Mercurious July 13th, 2009 at 2:07 am 17

    While I feel some outrage over this, it still seems to me that people do have the right to decide for themselves and their families how they’re going to live. I personally believe, for example, that there is biological benefit to fighting off the flu occasionally rather than avoiding every sniffle with a vaccination. But our local school district now wants to mandate flu and chicken pox vaccinations. When I was a kid, doctors used to tell parents to make sure their kids got exposed to chicken pox, because of the natural immunity it bestowed on them.Should we be forced to be vaccinated for the flu or for chicken pox? An argument could be made to this effect, using logic similar to what you’re prescribing for these families. So where’s the line? And who is going to draw it?

18. Brian July 13th, 2009 at 7:07 am 18

    Yes, I’ve read some reports on that. And to think I used to be a Hillsongs fan back when I was in the church.

19. John Evo July 13th, 2009 at 8:07 am 19

    I know that this happens on a regular basis, but it seems like there has been a lot of well-deserved media attention on this one. Maybe Madeline’s legacy will be a law that protects kids from religious non-sense.

20. Sean the Blogonaut F.C.D. July 13th, 2009 at 11:07 am 20

    On a related note, I have been blogging about Mercy Ministries Australia who have been using prayer and exorcism to treat mental health problems, with disastrous effects.The girl in the picture seems happy. What a pity she will never grow up.

21. Larro July 14th, 2009 at 6:07 am 21

    The sad thing is knowing that the children who do survive this barbarity will go on to prescribe the very same treatment. We can only hope otherwise.